Saturday, January 17, 2009

To Sumaiya

Sumaiya left a very emotional comment on a previous post of mine. The comment was phrased as a series of questions.

Sumaiya - I understand your pain. I feel much of it too. Nevertheless, I wish to give you my point of view by answering some of your questions.

Why are the Palestinians border closed?

 => because Hamas, which has basically declared a war on Israel, took over Gaza, and the Israelis are afraid of Hamas.
  => why did Hamas declare a war on Israel?
   => because Israel killed many Palestinians
    => why did Israel kill many Palestinians?
     => because the Palestinians killed many Israelis
.... and so on.

Why can the people of Gaza not leave or anyone go in to Gaza for the past 3 years?

=> see my answer to your previous question

Why is there a huge wall around the west bank (for how many years?)?

=> because Palestinian militants killed Israeli children by exploding themselves in civilian buses. The wall was built mostly as security measure. Nevertheless, it has caused suffering to innocent civilians.

Who builds walls around city's and keep people locked in? This is madness!

=> I agree. The situation is madness. Both sides have lost their head. Who carries explosives on their bodies, walks into a bus or a shopping mall and detonates? This is madness too.

The Palestinians have been living in horror for over 60 years and they have been locked within there own city's. The only weapon they have is homemade bombs (which is nothing compared to the weapon the Israeli army have) and there will to live on.

=> I disagree. Most palestinians have not been living in horror for over 60 years. They have been living in extremely bad conditions, but most of the time - not horror. The people of Gaza have been living in terrible despair for the past 3 years, and in absolute horror for the past 3 weeks.

Now and then just suddenly the Israeli army will open fire on the people of Gaza, just because they "suspect" that there is some kind of "terrorist" with in them! Killing innocent people and children.

=> The Israeli army has decided to regain its "deterrence". After the 2nd Lebanon war, the Israeli population began to fear that the Arabs are no longer afraid of the Israeli army. Israelis were afraid that the Iranians no longer fear Israeli retaliation, and that the Iranians will destroy Israel with a nuclear weapon. I have a feeling that the Israeli action in Gaza was also a message to Iran.

If there is to be peace then there has to be equal rights between both Palestinians and Israeli's.

=> I agree. But the Palestinians also have some work to do here. I explain more below when I suggest a non-violent struggle.

Why is there a wall around the west bank, is this how people are to live?

=> I answered this above, but I'd like to add that the wall is a border. There has also been a fence around Israel for over 60 years. It is also a wall. The wall causes more pain, because it passes through people's fields.

Why is Gaza peoples locked up in there own city. They are not given food or medical supplies or clean water. They are forced to live by digging tunnels and smuggling food and supplies though. Including weapons to fight back this oppression!

=> Fighting back violently is not the way to win. It only increases the oppression. The palestinians can win. All they have to do is renounce ALL violence - not just the Israeli violence. I suspect this will be even more difficult for them to do after the recent horrors.

You expect the people to be happily live like this and not fight back?

=> You are right. But this is also true from the Israeli side. We have been suffering from Arab violence for 100 years. I know that the Arab world doesn't see it this way, but this is how Israelis think. Israelis see themselves as fighting back.

Of course they will! What do you do watch your child starve to death and do nothing.

=> Please read my previous post.

How many Israelis died so far?


How many Palestinians died in 3 weeks?

1100 and 5000 wounded critically!

=> For the past 60 years, every time that Israel decided to increase the amount of violence, it caused more pain to the Palestinians than to the Israelis. Ironically, every time that the Palestinians decided to increase the amount of violence, it also caused more pain to the Palestinians than to the Israelis. The Palestinians have much to gain from switching to a non-violent struggle. I hope that they will understand this some day.

And don't forget 3 years ago in Janeen how many Palestinians where killed?


And the Israelis denied who killed them?

=> I have never heard of 5000 Palestinians dying in Janeen. I will appreciate references to objective sources (not Israeli or Arab - I don't trust either).

The people in Gaza are being attacked by the world strongest army, by sea, air and now land.

This is ridicules and sick the Gaza strip is such a small place and half the population are under 18 years old.

There is no food, no water, no place to live or to hide.

How can this be fair?

This is murder and all people who let this happen and support it are responsible.


It is not fair. The entire situation is not fair. I was born into the conflict - I didn't start it. That isn't fair either. We should struggle to find a solution that will be fair to the children of the future.


in the vanguard said...

My dear friend. Why do you keep using the media-propaganda term "Palestinians" - a term that did not exist before 1964. Don't make these Arabs into a people. They derive from the surrounding countries. By giving them that name you are effectively giving them a reason, and giving yourself a reason - to provide for them a country of their own.

What will it take for you finally - finally - to realize you are dealing with a serpent that wants you GONE. He'll take the state of course - but NOT because he really wants that - as a final solution. He has the same instincts as his soul mates had only 60 years earlier in Germany. That's the solution they are aiming for.

WHO voted Hamas into power in Gaza - after YOU uprooted 3 generations of Jews from THEIR land, THEIR homes and THEIR industry.

Stop already to listen to your leftist media who are being paid to dismantle the country. Start thinking out of the box, genuinely - will you? Please!?

Israeli Blogger said...

Dear Vanguard,

Wow - it's been ages since I did anything with this blog. I didn't think anyone was looking at it. Your questions seem like an interesting opportunity for me to listen to someone new - so here goes.

I'm interested in hearing more about the solution you seem to be proposing. By saying "they derive from the surrounding countries", are you suggesting that Egypt should assimilate Gaza, and that Jordan should assimilate the west bank? Or that the residents of the territories should relocate to Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia? Or perhaps something else?


in the vanguard said...

I am most definitely NOT suggesting that Egypt should assimilate Gaza.

I don't know where you "hold" with your faith in Hashem, so I'll first premise my answer in sying Hashem GAVE us Gaza by helping us with that territory during a defensive war. NOTHING we get as part of Israel proper or greater Israel, because of a war, because of its being gifted to us, must be returned. Never must we "return" something that now is our very own. ALL of Israel becomes sacred by virtue of it BEING JEWISH, including Jewish land.

My point was that you promote yielding to Arab demands or demands by foreign governments on behalf of Arabs to yield them some land. How do you promote it? By granting Arabs inside Israel a status they do not deserve, a status of a "one people" whose name is the pseudonym "Palestinians" - a name THEY made up because it never existed prior to about 1964. You grant them, wittingly or unwittingly, the status of a nation within a nation, and therefore the inner nation should be able to create its own destiny without the outer nation's interference. Don't you see how you promote that injustice to the Jewish people, by giving credence to the fiction that these immigrants from neighboring countries - just as Arafat was an Egyptian - now be given a claim as a people and therefore a state of their own?

I don't know your age, but if you look at history, current history mind you, you will note that no amount of bending over backwards for the sake of peace with Arabs has ever helped. No matter what the Jew will offer, it will never be enough. The leftist Israelis never believed that - until recently - finally - thank God, now that the missiles of the enemy can reach Jerusalem or Tel-Aviv. NOW these leftists are waking up to see the REAL threat - that the Arabs want only so much that they can encroach a little more, then a little more - with their real aim being to DEVOUR little Israel.

And you, my dear friend, promote that cause of the enemy by calling them - not emigrants - but "Palestinians" - which they ARE NOT!

Israeli Blogger said...

So are you suggesting that the solution to all problems in this region will be achieved by deporting a million people from Gaza to some other place? Can you explain how that will bring the end of war?

in the vanguard said...

I'm afraid the "peace" you expect by doing "something" for them will never transpire. Even as you write your concern, you mention nothing of their as-of-today culture, that, by the way, hasn't changed, teaching their children to hate and war monger. Have you not seen any of that on their media? have you not seen little kids learning Mickey Mouse theater against the pigs and apes? Don't you see you have NOONE to talk to? And if this is happening to Arabs who got their land from Jews, then imagine what culture they have beyond Gaza. They have NOTHING BUT the Jews to thrive on, negatively of course. Do they excel in science, in sports, in anything but hate, torture, murder and butchery? Is Europe sinking because of Islampphobia or because they are being eaten up alive? They are ungrateful there and wherever they are - not because they were born bad - but because they have a religion of hate, of double standards - one for the muslim and the other for the infidels. This is not a joke - they live this sickness.

Just because the problem is a hard one does not mean we have to succumb to stupid, self-sacrificial behavior. It is OUR land, it is SACRED land, it is GOD-GIVEN land to the JEWISH PEOPLE. If we stand proud and not cower to foreign demands - That nad ONLY THAT will make them understand - really understand - because it is, after all, God's agenda, but he wants his people to be PROUD of their inheritance. Only a proud people can persuade the foreign elements to get off the Jeiwsh back. If had the backbone of an ENTEBBE mindset, they'd stop their ceaseless badgering of the Jew. Only a cowering Jew can instigate and provoke them.

I, for one, if others will join in, am willing to buy an Arab out, and send him where only he wishes. Alas, the government in Israel is still haunted by fooloish, childish, political correctness nonsense because a) they so love to mimic the West, which is deteriorating before their very eyes, and b) they have so sense of pride because they promote secularity in a Holy Land, a land that cannot tolerate secularism that denies God denies Torah and denies several millennia of tradition. Just look at the poor stature of the IDF in the Israeli youth's eyes. They are selfish and would rather know what Barbara Streisand has to say than what a rabbi might think.

I now begin to ramble from tangential thoughts that wedge themselves into coherent composition, so I wish you God's blessings!